Passports do not state gender, toilets are gender neutral and we are 'dear passengers' on the train. To what extent does the contents of your underpants still matter? During NEMO Kennislink Live, moderator Desiree Hoving spoke with scientists Geertje Mak and Judi Mesman about the influence of society and upbringing on gender and behaviour.
The room is packed when moderator Desiree Hoving picks up the microphone. When preparing for this evening, it was already noticeable:gender is a complicated subject that involves a lot of emotions – which is why it is perhaps not surprising that the hall is full. Hoving has to raise her voice at the welcome speech to get over the noise, which may be partly caused by the drop penises and candy vaginas on the tables.
The doctor didn't look in your pants
The first expert to join this evening is Prof. Dr. Geertje Mak, professor of the political history of gender in the Netherlands at the University of Amsterdam. She specializes in historical research into changing meanings of gender, masculinity and femininity. A movie full of children's toys appears on the screen. The stereotypical appearance of the dolls does not correspond to their own feelings. A dog in a pink suit feels like a boy and a doll in a blue uniform feels like a girl.
“Is that a good explanation of gender?” Hoving asks Mak. “It's a start, shall we say”, Mak replies. “Two centuries ago, no one said that gender is a feeling. Now we find:gender comes from within. This change has to do with medical developments. Like you said, gender is in your pants. In the nineteenth century, doctors were not allowed to look in those pants. When a gynecologist examined a woman, he looked very decently the other way if he was with one hand under the skirt.”
“But medical science got better. There appeared to be a difference between what the doctor could see, such as female hormones and chromosomes, and what the patient could feel, such as masculinity. For the first time a difference arose between body and psyche. We have come to find that psyche, that 'self', increasingly important. So important that a woman who wants to go through life as a man can get an operation reimbursed. The body comes second.”
It starts with education
The emergence of that 'self' already starts with the upbringing of a child. Prof. dr. Dr Judi Mesman joins us to tell you more about it. She is professor of diversity in education and development at the University of Leiden. “We made a record book with pictures of guys doing boy things, girls doing girl things, girls doing boy things and boys doing girl things, just according to the stereotypes. We said to parents:go go through this picture book with your child and tell us something about those pictures."
Featured by the editors
MedicineWhat are the microplastics doing in my sunscreen?!
AstronomySun, sea and science
BiologyExpedition to melting land
“If we count how many positive and negative words parents use on the different plates, it turns out that parents use significantly more positive words on the plates that match the stereotypes than on the plates that don't match. You don't see that at once, you really have to count for it, but children notice the difference very well. This is a record book once, but you can imagine the message will get through if this happens all the time.”
“That became clear in another study. In two different school classes the children were structurally addressed differently:in one class as children and in the other as boys or girls. Within two weeks the children in the class where gender was always mentioned started to behave much more stereotypically. The girls also played more and more with only girls, and boys more and more with only boys. And that in two weeks.”
Whether or not categories
Growing up with stereotypes is hard to get out of. Mesman knows that all too well. “I once experienced myself standing in line at a tailor, and the tailor said to the woman in front of me:You are coming to pick up the toga. My first thought was:would her husband work at our university?” There is laughter in the room. “I'm a woman wearing a toga myself, guys,” Mesman says. “I just hung that thing myself. I am concerned with gender in my research, and the first thing I think of when I think of a gown is a man.”
In an effort to get rid of stereotyping, the toilets in NEMO are temporarily gender neutral. Mak has a nice anecdote about this. “There was a committee that had to think about the symbol for the door of a transgender toilet. It was on the news, I was laughing out loud in the kitchen. They thought about it for a long time, and then they said, you know what we're doing? We call it toilet.”
Still, not everyone wants to just throw the categories in the trash. "I just have the idea that people push themselves into a certain street," remarks someone from the audience. “How do we get rid of those categories when more and more are added?” “That has to do with emancipation,” Mesman says. “Perhaps the need for new categories will diminish once the emancipation struggle is over.” “The categories also push each other away," Mak adds. "Transgenders used to be part of the gay and lesbian culture, but at a certain point they were separated. So you get new communities, which again exclude each other. That's good a complicated process.”
Female men and masculine women
During the intermission, everyone is invited to take a picture of Superman or Barbie according to their gender and stick it on a gender ruler according to their gender. Mak holds it up in the air for everyone to see. Hoving studies the results. “Many women position themselves somewhere in the middle. The men stay more on their own side. I feel that the scope of how masculine women are is wider than how feminine men are. What do you think about this, scientists?”
“We generally find that masculinity is more rigid than femininity,” Mesman says. “As a woman, it's best to behave and dress masculine without any repercussions, while for men it's more complicated if they behave feminine.” “There's a historical reason for that,” Mak says. “Masculine had a higher status than femininity. Men who felt feminine used to go to a psychologist, while women who felt masculine went on an adventure, as it were. Even now, men who feel feminine are more likely to be labeled trans than women who feel masculine. So we are only half emancipated.”
How do you deal with influencing your gender
Stores sell sweaters for men and women, toys for boys and girls and parents unconsciously give their children subtle hints about the stereotypes that play in society. Unconscious influence makes gender and sex complicated enough, and then there are all kinds of emotions at stake. A discussion about gender quickly becomes overheated. “If it's suggested that what you are is influenced by factors other than your inner self, that can be threatening,” says Mesman.
“It is already difficult to think about your 'self', especially when all kinds of science show that your self is influenced by the society around you. But I don't really care if I wear high heels because I like it or because society says it makes women look more beautiful. You don't always have to worry about it, except when someone is wronged or someone's rights are taken away. My advice is:do what you want.”